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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by SteveYeagley</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1010</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveYeagley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1010</guid>
		<description>@lisahope - I just re-read your two posts.  Thank you for your honesty in expressing these thoughts.  I think you&#039;ve struck at the heart of this issue for me.  It&#039;s about the soul of Adventism, about who we&#039;ve become, and whether or not we who we are brings real value to the lives of young adults in terms of relationship.   You ask the question, &quot;Why attempt to recreate something that has not created value in their lives?&quot;  Excellent question.  

I think again of Gary Hamel&#039;s article on the Facebook generation.  In contrast to the static heirarchies of today&#039;s institutions, he says,&quot;Online hierarchies are inherently dynamic. The moment someone stops adding value to the community, his influence starts to wane. Power is always on the move, always flowing—towards those who are making a difference and away from those who aren’t.&quot;  I don&#039;t think we realize just how easy it is for any business or church to be &quot;unfriended&quot; in a Facebook world.  

Perhaps part of the way forward is to focus on creating communities of value rather than communities of mere belief.  John Mayer sings, &quot;Belief is a beautiful armor, but it makes for the heaviest sword.&quot; And that sword can be wielded against our own.  Which may be why many churches today have begun to develop core values in addition to statements of belief.  In a world as dysfunctional as ours, healthy love and community must be coached and modeled.  Common values structure and guide our relationships with each other and those outside of the group.  Perhaps the right values, consistently taught and practiced from leadership on down, could help to create the kind of safe and caring community young adults yearn for in our churches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lisahope &#8211; I just re-read your two posts.  Thank you for your honesty in expressing these thoughts.  I think you&#8217;ve struck at the heart of this issue for me.  It&#8217;s about the soul of Adventism, about who we&#8217;ve become, and whether or not we who we are brings real value to the lives of young adults in terms of relationship.   You ask the question, &#8220;Why attempt to recreate something that has not created value in their lives?&#8221;  Excellent question.  </p>
<p>I think again of Gary Hamel&#8217;s article on the Facebook generation.  In contrast to the static heirarchies of today&#8217;s institutions, he says,&#8221;Online hierarchies are inherently dynamic. The moment someone stops adding value to the community, his influence starts to wane. Power is always on the move, always flowing—towards those who are making a difference and away from those who aren’t.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t think we realize just how easy it is for any business or church to be &#8220;unfriended&#8221; in a Facebook world.  </p>
<p>Perhaps part of the way forward is to focus on creating communities of value rather than communities of mere belief.  John Mayer sings, &#8220;Belief is a beautiful armor, but it makes for the heaviest sword.&#8221; And that sword can be wielded against our own.  Which may be why many churches today have begun to develop core values in addition to statements of belief.  In a world as dysfunctional as ours, healthy love and community must be coached and modeled.  Common values structure and guide our relationships with each other and those outside of the group.  Perhaps the right values, consistently taught and practiced from leadership on down, could help to create the kind of safe and caring community young adults yearn for in our churches.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1009</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey Lisa I am completely with you. I am not wanting to endorse a position in the church, and maybe I should have been more emphatic about that. What I am wanting to spur is interpersonal relationships with some intentionality. Nothing forced or coerced, but definitely more than accidental. Discipleship doesn’t happen completely by accident. Sometimes spontaneous, serendipitous, surprising…absolutely. But as an adult I have to decide to think about someone other than me every once in a while.

And for the essence of the “organic” church, discipleship is as vital as the great commandment. Jesus is clear that kingdom living is more than personal piety and religious rituals. We are to do life together.

Thanks for the many ways Lisa you mentor so naturally and caringly. We need more disciples just like you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Lisa I am completely with you. I am not wanting to endorse a position in the church, and maybe I should have been more emphatic about that. What I am wanting to spur is interpersonal relationships with some intentionality. Nothing forced or coerced, but definitely more than accidental. Discipleship doesn’t happen completely by accident. Sometimes spontaneous, serendipitous, surprising…absolutely. But as an adult I have to decide to think about someone other than me every once in a while.</p>
<p>And for the essence of the “organic” church, discipleship is as vital as the great commandment. Jesus is clear that kingdom living is more than personal piety and religious rituals. We are to do life together.</p>
<p>Thanks for the many ways Lisa you mentor so naturally and caringly. We need more disciples just like you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1008</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1008</guid>
		<description>@Alex – Yes we are to be a transformational agent, but I don’t believe it is an issue of power transfer, but rather for all of us to connect to a Christocentric energy. The organic church doesn’t have established adults as the head, it is Jesus Christ alone that is the head of the spiritual body. As we learn the interdependence of body parts, organs, both big and small, we begin to “live” completely relying on Christ and needing each other. In the book of Joel, there is a prophecy of a day when young and old will dream and see visions, I’m eager to see that prophecy fulfilled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alex – Yes we are to be a transformational agent, but I don’t believe it is an issue of power transfer, but rather for all of us to connect to a Christocentric energy. The organic church doesn’t have established adults as the head, it is Jesus Christ alone that is the head of the spiritual body. As we learn the interdependence of body parts, organs, both big and small, we begin to “live” completely relying on Christ and needing each other. In the book of Joel, there is a prophecy of a day when young and old will dream and see visions, I’m eager to see that prophecy fulfilled.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1007</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1007</guid>
		<description>@BranDen – I completely agree! In addition to being a tremendous “natural resource,” I believe in the spiritual movement that Jesus started and feel that if Adventistism is to get on that Jesus train, that young adults will be the ones to burst us out of our fixation with ourselves and recklessly jump on board with Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BranDen – I completely agree! In addition to being a tremendous “natural resource,” I believe in the spiritual movement that Jesus started and feel that if Adventistism is to get on that Jesus train, that young adults will be the ones to burst us out of our fixation with ourselves and recklessly jump on board with Christ.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1006</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1006</guid>
		<description>@deeperguy – I hear you. The intent of my essay is to challenge spiritual leaders to move towards meaningful action, intentional discipleship. I don’t feel delegates at these large politlcal party conventions will impress Jesus, nor young adults seeking Him. I believe Adventist leaders are called to some personal responsibility to fulfill the Great Commission in their own lives. I’m trying to in mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@deeperguy – I hear you. The intent of my essay is to challenge spiritual leaders to move towards meaningful action, intentional discipleship. I don’t feel delegates at these large politlcal party conventions will impress Jesus, nor young adults seeking Him. I believe Adventist leaders are called to some personal responsibility to fulfill the Great Commission in their own lives. I’m trying to in mine.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>@Javi – Thanks for your kind affirmation. I concur with moving beyond political rhetoric to observable action! I am not so much concerned with delegate representation at the GC Session, but rather every Adventist leader taking on the challenge to be actively mentoring. If that occurs, representation will emerge naturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Javi – Thanks for your kind affirmation. I concur with moving beyond political rhetoric to observable action! I am not so much concerned with delegate representation at the GC Session, but rather every Adventist leader taking on the challenge to be actively mentoring. If that occurs, representation will emerge naturally.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1004</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1004</guid>
		<description>@Rich Carlson – Keep on keeping on! You have decades of proven mentorship that has not only shaped young adults but has infiltrated the culture of your campus. I love it when a person can back up talk with action. We don’t call those people politicians typically, we call them activists. Thanks for being an activist throughout your career, and challenging yourself to take it to another level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rich Carlson – Keep on keeping on! You have decades of proven mentorship that has not only shaped young adults but has infiltrated the culture of your campus. I love it when a person can back up talk with action. We don’t call those people politicians typically, we call them activists. Thanks for being an activist throughout your career, and challenging yourself to take it to another level.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1003</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1003</guid>
		<description>@Steve – Thank you so much for your candor. You are on the mark, as this challenge is likely to call all us leaders to a more Sabbatarian practice of leadership in order to even attempt this tithe. As a young adult, I experienced mentoring by leaders who had to intentionally cull out space for building/fostering a relationship with me. They had to decide to send me to training events and to pour their wisdom into me. This came at the sacrifice of other things. I value deeply the poignant reality you are asking every leader to consider for the sake of implementation. Otherwise it is simply another “pat on the head” for another generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve – Thank you so much for your candor. You are on the mark, as this challenge is likely to call all us leaders to a more Sabbatarian practice of leadership in order to even attempt this tithe. As a young adult, I experienced mentoring by leaders who had to intentionally cull out space for building/fostering a relationship with me. They had to decide to send me to training events and to pour their wisdom into me. This came at the sacrifice of other things. I value deeply the poignant reality you are asking every leader to consider for the sake of implementation. Otherwise it is simply another “pat on the head” for another generation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1002</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1002</guid>
		<description>@elisa – as always you are spot on. But let me offer comment to your “mentoring aspiration” commentary. You are exactly a case study of a mentoree going about the cause of Christ. So in Malawi, you are trying to live as Christ in the midst of red tape, tremendous need, and missional opportunity. This is God’s current call to you and we pray continually for God to live in and through you there in the mission field. Additionally, you somehow make time to stay connected with movements you have helped spark (i.e. Oasis, GODencounters, Deeper, etc.), this is a fulfillment of the Great Commission. I would also report that the prayer room you started in Bolingbrook Adventist Hospital has been carried on by the chaplain and administrators there. Even in your mighty prayers, new generations are being discipled. Because you dare to pay forward, the ripple effects of what GOD is doing and has done in your life is creating legacy. You are an example of a young adult, turned leader, turned discipler. We are proud of you and trust GOD to continue to add to His cause through your faithfulness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@elisa – as always you are spot on. But let me offer comment to your “mentoring aspiration” commentary. You are exactly a case study of a mentoree going about the cause of Christ. So in Malawi, you are trying to live as Christ in the midst of red tape, tremendous need, and missional opportunity. This is God’s current call to you and we pray continually for God to live in and through you there in the mission field. Additionally, you somehow make time to stay connected with movements you have helped spark (i.e. Oasis, GODencounters, Deeper, etc.), this is a fulfillment of the Great Commission. I would also report that the prayer room you started in Bolingbrook Adventist Hospital has been carried on by the chaplain and administrators there. Even in your mighty prayers, new generations are being discipled. Because you dare to pay forward, the ripple effects of what GOD is doing and has done in your life is creating legacy. You are an example of a young adult, turned leader, turned discipler. We are proud of you and trust GOD to continue to add to His cause through your faithfulness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Transcending Talk with Tithe by aamphd</title>
		<link>http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/transcending-talk-with-tithe/#comment-1001</link>
		<dc:creator>aamphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ignitionblog.wordpress.com/?p=1194#comment-1001</guid>
		<description>@John Grys – I agree with you and clearly new generations can sniff out a “bait &amp; switch” from a mile away. Additionally and clearly, Kinnaman &amp; Lyons book, unChristian, has conspicuously pointed out hypocrisy as a pronounced characteristic of our faith that has even non-Christian young adults turning a deaf ear to the cause of Christ. I differ from Elder Paulsen, in that I am not trying to call young adult back, although I want to harness his rhetoric in this regard. I am challenging all faith leaders to fulfill the Great Commission and the Great Commandment, to live out the teachings of Jesus. It is a Christocentric movement that undergirds this challenge, however it may also reveal institutional flaws. It is on the issue of loving discipleship that I challenge Adventist leaders. Thanks for your kind affirmation, I’m praying for real leaders to step up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John Grys – I agree with you and clearly new generations can sniff out a “bait &amp; switch” from a mile away. Additionally and clearly, Kinnaman &amp; Lyons book, unChristian, has conspicuously pointed out hypocrisy as a pronounced characteristic of our faith that has even non-Christian young adults turning a deaf ear to the cause of Christ. I differ from Elder Paulsen, in that I am not trying to call young adult back, although I want to harness his rhetoric in this regard. I am challenging all faith leaders to fulfill the Great Commission and the Great Commandment, to live out the teachings of Jesus. It is a Christocentric movement that undergirds this challenge, however it may also reveal institutional flaws. It is on the issue of loving discipleship that I challenge Adventist leaders. Thanks for your kind affirmation, I’m praying for real leaders to step up.</p>
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